RE: Rebuttal to Bernard Chapin by Steve Guess
Hi Steve,
I’m doing a chapter today called “What is a Real Man?” which Mike LaSalle will be turning into a “VOICE OF THE GREAT AND NOBLE MIKE LASALLE MND podcast” once I’m done so this will have to be it. I can’t say much more until I’m done which may not be until Tuesday. How I envy you academics! If only the rest of us didn’t have to work. Oh well!
- Radical feminism is what I critique. Actually, I am an equity feminist who is little different in viewpoint from Daphne Patai, Christina Hoff-Sommers, and Carrie Lukas not to mention the whole gang at IWF and ifeminists.com. Wendy McElroy rocks by the way.
- Yes, radical feminism is “an intolerant, hateful, useless ideology” and they are little different from the Nazis. Just as with the Nazis they are Manichean thinkers who blame one source for all their troubles. With the Nazis it was the Jews and with the feministas it is white men—if not men in general depending on the works of what particular ignoramus you happen to be reading at the time. Take out the word “Jew” replace it with “man” and the worldviews are exactly the same. Why would a radical feminist USA spare men once it was established? They certainly would not and I provide an illustration of what such a state would look like in my seldom read, and largely forgotten-lol, Napalm is the Scent of Justice. They are socialists and totalitarians just like the Nazis but the lone difference is that they’re internationalists as opposed to nationalists. They also seem to not fit into uniforms as well.
- I agree that “Feminism is really an APPROACH and technique of ‘‘deconstruction’” but it is also “a particular belief system.” I agree that they certainly are a confused bunch with differing opinions on many things. That is to be expected as their minds are disorganized and corrupt. Most really would be incapable of any kind of productive work were they to be uprooted from their socialist non-profit and federally financed positions, and the great majority of them certainly are irrational, spiteful, haters of both men and women. They hate us but they hate women just as much otherwise they wouldn’t try to order and micromanage their lives for them. They may “offer services for women, including counseling and access to medical services” but it comes with a price which is being exposed to their propaganda. Furthermore, why are we paying for these services to be offered to one sex and not the other?
- There’s plenty of room for radical feminists in my version of the world. They’re evil inspires and strengthens me. I’d want to take away their state funding but that would be true of many other expenditures in the libertarian utopia which I never will have a chance to erect.
- Look Steve, I bear you no personal ill will. You’re taking the time to argue and debate. That makes you okay in my book; you’re vastly preferable to the average feminista. Guys like me have no choice but to respect diversity of opinion and, like I said, it makes us stronger. Frankly, I just heard the term “mangina” yesterday and am now having a bit of fun with it. If you say you’re not one then I believe you. You say your “straight” but that question never even crossed my mind. Regardless, I believe you anyway. Why wouldn’t I? Who cares? I only heard the term yesterday from the eminent blogging hero, ChristianJ. I didn’t know that it had any sexual connotations. I thought it just meant a submissive male. Anyway, do what you want. It’s still a free country…for now.
- Whether particular radical feminist groups claim to be “Marxist” is immaterial. I’ve never seen one who wasn’t a socialist. They look to the government to solve ever problem. Daphne Patai in her Heterophobia makes this point brilliantly by illustrating the “there ought to be a law” mindset. Which radical feminists do you know who aren’t socialists?
- Glad we both agree that we’re not speaking hatefully to one another.
- Women are not oppressed. If they don’t make up a majority of the country’s rulers you should ask them why they don’t run for office. It is in their answers that you will have your answer. However, men will always strive for power for a basic biological reason which is that women find powerful men attractive. Powerful men are the ones who obtain the best females ask Henry Kissinger. Although powerful women are not repulsive to men, their power is a trait which is immaterial. Example: Hillary Clinton is just an old lady on top of all her other flaws. That she’s famous, rich, and about to perhaps be President cannot make up for her kankles and repulsive shape. Those last few sentences may teach you more about life than everything you have learned at Berkeley.
- Many women CHOOSE to be single mothers and the socialist interventions of government allow them to make this CHOICE. I’ve known many of them over the years.
- Feministas have ruined college athletics by insisting on an equal number of male/female athletes. Surveys have shown that more men want to play sports than girls. That you’re proud to see wrestling, baseball, and swimming programs axed is a testament to how much you’ve been indoctrinated. As a kid, wrestling was an endless source of EARNED self-esteem for me and it’s sad that other boys will be denied what I had as the sport is dying.
- I use far more proof and citations in my articles and upcoming book than any radical feminist out there. Besides, they deny needing any proof as “The Master’s tools will never dismantle the Masters house.” Many also believe there is no such thing as objectivity.
- Women should do as they please. If they want to work they should. If their husband can bankroll them, or they are rich already, then they should stay at home if they want to. That’s their choice not ours.
- You’ll find that I know a lot about these people. I do a pretty good job of taking apart their ideas, but, admittedly, I’m no David Horowitz or Roger Kimball in terms of talent. However, on the left of me I am now stuck with a bookcase full of books that I can’t stand which were acquired solely for the purposes of giving my next book (and the one following that) added legitimacy and power. You can fully review it once I complete it in June or before then if I’m lucky.
- No “real academic” could rip apart my positions. They’ve been so weakened by ideological conformity and PC that they can barely stand to listen to their students question them nowadays.
- Lastly, I will give you the last word from here on out as I believe you’ll get responses from everybody else anyway. Regardless of our differences, good luck to you sir, and thanks for debating with me. I sincerely do appreciate it.
I am sorry to here Bernard that you will not be debating on this particular thread any more because I believe on another thread in an article by Will Maven I introduced the word “Mangina”. I was hoping for a little bit more of that 15 minutes of fame thing. LOL. Having said that I have to admit to being a little confused. I believe myself to be an MRA yet my ideologies would seem to conflict with many of the stated beliefs of my brethren. Some of the comments by my fellow MRA’s cause me to shudder. The first being (and like you I won’t debate the issue here) is abortion. I do not believe this is an issue where men can win. I have to say I sit on the fence on this. Until I pass something the size of a watermelon out an orifice that is infinitely smaller than the object being expelled I don’t think I can prudently comment. Yet, I agree with my fellow MRA’s that if women have the right to opt for parenthood I have the right to opt out if I so desire. Another point on the manifesto I am on the fence about is gay marriage. While I cringe at the thought of someone (male or female) performing oral sex on Rosie O’Donnell. I just can’t get too worked up about it. I work with a gay man and am honored to call him a friend. Yet the other half of me wonders about the effect on the children adopted by them. My position though is as long as you don’t hurt my child I don’t have a problem with it. It seems to me the first thing women pick up on with these two issues is that men are controlling and we are the ones in the bushes waiting to bomb the abortion clinics. All know is I became an MRA because of the injustices I see in the courts, and the pussy privilege (there is another one for you) that is rampant in society. My philosophy is let’s just work together without telling each other what to do and no special privileges for anyone. I’m probably rambling but I have been in Steven’s position I believed women had the right to a fair shake. Yet I also believe that having acquired their fair shake they have gone over the line. The courts have allowed it. Government has allowed it and men like Steven have been sucked into the chivalry game and even perhaps revel in it. I was there once and got burned.
well first I should say I think it proves some of the logic in feminism to use the word “vagina” as an insult by crafting it into the word “mangina.” In fact, feminists point out that there are far more words to denegrade women than there are men (make a list of these words, such as B*tch, c*nt, tw*t, sl*t, prude, etc and run them up against male insults such as d*ck, etc). Be sure to screen out the gender-neutral terms (like as*)
Nevertheless, I appreciate your commentary Mr. Chapin, and I’ve submitted a reply to your editor and we’ll see if he’s interested in posting it. I will do my best to highlight MY CASE for feminism.
You have a case against radical feminism, but of course people are against radical anything. I’m against radical baseball I suppose, and radical biology, but I think you need to do more than play word games here and get specific. You don’t think its radical for women to vote or work, which makes about the first 200 years of women’s rights group history, but you do have a problem with women having Title 9 funds for female sports?
And you’re worried that men are getting the shaft in America, losing ground every day? You ask why there aren’t male-rape counseling centors? There’s a lot to reply to those ideas, but not at this time.
Thank you for your dialogue, and sorry for any misunderstanding about the censorship.
Regards,
Steven
Here is the kind of hatred of men, marriage, and family that American feminists (some academics, some writers, some politicians, some government bureaucrats) have spread throughout America for 40 years, the west generally, and now India:
“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.”
Ice And Fire – Andrea Dworkin
“Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.”
Vassar College. Assistant Dean of Students – Catherine Comin
“All men are rapists and that’s all they are.”
Author; (later, advisor to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.) – Marilyn French
“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.”
Ms. Magazine Editor. – Robin Morgan
“I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire.”
Ms. Magazine Editor. – Robin Morgan
“‘To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.”
Scum Manifesto – Valerie Solanas
“(Rape) is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear”
Against Our Will p.6. – Susan Brownmiller
“We are taught, encouraged, moulded by and lulled into accepting a range of false notions about the family. As a source of some of our most profound experiences, it continues to be such an integral part of our emotional lives that it appears beyond criticism. Yet hiding from the truth of family life leaves women and children vulnerable.”
- Canadian Panel on Violence Against Women
” How will the family unit be destroyed? …[T]he demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare.”
In “Female Liberation” – Roxanne Dunbarr
“Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it “Her”. Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination.”
Pornography: Men Possessing Women – Andrea Dworkin
“The traditional flowers of courtship are the traditional flowers of the grave, delivered to the victim before the kill. The cadaver is dressed up and made up and laid down and ritually violated and consecrated to an eternity of being used.”
- Andrea Dworkin
“Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.”
- Andrea Dworkin
“The cultural institutions which embody and enforce those interlocked aberrations – for instance, law, art, religion, nation-states, the family, tribe, or commune based on father-right – these institutions are real and they must be destroyed.”
- Andrea Dworkin
“My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don’t even need to shrug. I simply don’t care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don’t matter.”
The Woman’s Room – Marilyn French
“The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together…. Whatever its ultimate meaning, the breakup of families now is an objectively revolutionary process…. No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children….”
“Functions of the Family,” WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969 – Linda Gordon
“When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression…”
- Sheila Jeffrys
“I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He’s just incapable of it.”
Former Congresswoman – Barbara Jordan
“You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs.”
(Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.) – Catherine MacKinnon
“All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”
- Catherine MacKinnon
“We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.”
From Sisterhood Is Powerful, (ed), 1970, p. 537 – Robin Morgan
“All men are good for is fucking, and running over with a truck”
Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000.
I don’t get bothered at all when called names. In fact in usually means that I’m winning. Most men from my own experience don’t call women denigrating names unless she deserves it. Yes, I’m the type of guy who thinks women ought to get what they deserve. Same for men. Maybe I deserve being called a d**k. Maybe also I’m right.
But the pure rabid hatred above that these feminists have spread throughout must be answered. And any woman anywhere that expresses to me a ‘tude that stems from this hate is gonna get a response. And it won’t be a good one.
Brother Chapin: these quotes were originally posted by me years ago on The Daily Cause and are found on several men’s sites. Perhaps you can use these in your book.
“Nevertheless, I appreciate your commentary Mr. Chapin, and I’ve submitted a reply to your editor and we’ll see if he’s interested in posting it. I will do my best to highlight MY CASE for feminism.”
Typical feminist, Bernard is denied any chance to respond to that feminist journalist ranting the usual garbage, but here we have a demand to publish while they have no hesitation to refuse or deny any argument against feminism.
The feminist writer aka.
“Jenny Dombrowski, in an article[i] recently penned for the Baltimore Sun is one such commentator.”
Feminists can extort and exaggerate, but do not want anyone to debate that rant.
Kill all opposition. How dare anyone say anything negative against this obnoxious scourge.
Yes, I can Denis, fine work indeed.
Badger, sorry that I failed to give you credit. Nice creativity there with mangina.
SG: “I think it proves some of the logic in feminism to use the word “vagina” as an insult by crafting it into the word “mangina.” ”
You see it as an insult, not simply a colourful descriptive word, a conjoining of ‘man’ and ‘vagina’? I think it is a well crafted modern word, almost a pun but not quite, but very apt and memorable shorthand for the sort of chap who talks though a female lower front orifice. No doubt he takes a day off now and then by talking through his own rear one. Come now, Steven, where’s your writer’s creativity?
Hmm, if the use of the word mangina is indication of widespread discrimination against females, is then the word bounty indication of widespread discrimination against whites?
Steven G
YOU CUNT
Shocking, such an insult. People are offended by ten points, at least when they hear the word CUNT, unless the are Vagina Monologue warriors. But if you are called a DICK people hardly notice. We all assume that being a “dick” is as bad as it gets. Dick as in “Don’t be a Dick!” or … as Steve Martin said in a movie “Your name wouldn’t be “DICK!” would it? Can you possibly believe that the feminist got it right that their sexual organs, not mens, are debased in our culture?
In the movie a vagina is called “portal to heaven” … Pulp Fiction “Holy of Holies” I know of many such examples. Find and example of women praising a penis that is part of popular culture. Give me an example of a feminist speaking highly of a penis. I have several examples of feminists jeering male sexual organs. If you use Camille Paglia as a feminist speaking higly of a hard cock, well, I am sure that you would disagree with Paglia on many issues. She thinks most feminists are wrong about many views of sex, porno and rape. Besides her, have any of your “sisters” given you the message that cocks are good to have around when you need one.
Go to any high school or watch teen TV programs or movies, … male sexual organs are kicked, set on fire, held on to by bull dogs, Whoopie Goldberg hits two guys in the balls at the same time, … all the kids have seen such shows for revenge, or humor. For an experiment, have a girl walk down the hall and yell “you Dick” at some guy and see if anyone turns their head, it’s common, many times a day “You DICK” Dick head. on and on. At a film for sexual assault awareness month, of of your feminists sisters yelled “You Dick” at a man on the screen. I told her that just as shouting you cunt would be sexist and demeaning … to use a sexual organ as the viliest insult … so is using a four letter word to insult male sexual organs… she didn’t think it was the same.
The girl yelling you dick would hardly be noticed.
Now have a boy yell out “you cunt” at a girl… the PC cops, you, your sisters, would make attendinig the Vagina Mono part of the punishment as a precursor to apologizing to the girl, individually, and to all girls as a gender, … and you know it. Do you really believe men hold a vagina in lower regard than women hold a penis… 25 years old is an excuse for somethings, but by now I am sure you know that what I am saying about dicks and cunts is truer than what you are claiming.
SD
Steven Guess is the MOST DISHONEST columnist on MND.
1. Far more words to insult women? There are plenty of words to insult both sexes. Steven is a liar. Both men and women can be verbally cruel.
2. Steven is against “radical” anything? He makes comparisons to radical baseball? I’ve never heard of that. It seems he is using straw men to deflect
criticism from feminism. Ask Steven how he feels about the Society for Cutting Up Men. Ask him if he feels outright bias based on sex is a good thing.
3. He proposes that most men feel it is “radical” for women to vote or work. This is a lie. Nobody thinks this is radical. Most men feel the attack on traditional
roles and the freedom to make traditional choices is the real problem.
It is very easy to attack men and defend the worst excesses of radical feminism if you are using clever phrases to disguise what you really mean.
If Steven Guess is the new star of MensNewsDaily, it is clear Mike LaSalle is trying to go “mainstream media” with his site. That means slowly phasing out the
columnists who know feminism and leftist social policy is a disaster. If Steven is welcome on MND, why not invite dozens of feminists to post columns? Wouldn’t
that represent fairness? Woudn’t that show that MND isn’t a woman-hating site?
[...] Burden of rejoinder is a term that remains embedded in my mind from my years in college debate. It can be defined as “The affirmative team assumes the burden of proof, i.e., to prove that the proposition is probably true. The negative team assumes the burden of rejoinder, i.e., to attack the affirmative team’s arguments.” I assumed this burden by refuting Ms. Dombrowski screed assertion by assertion. I took it up again when I answered my critics with a follow-up article and another that appeared shortly after the second. The burden of rejoinder is never met by saying, “Puh-leeze!!!” Valley Girl lingo is not the stuff of high debate. Think about this in relation to the title which includes “unguided.” Who should be guiding internet writers? Think of how condescending that word is along with its reek of totalitarianism. Should we guided by people who don’t know what the burden of rejoinder means? Why shouldn’t we be allowed to think for ourselves? [...]
Oh man, this is something. Steve D, you the man. You are so right that calling some woman a CUNT might result in a fainting spell it’s no longer even wispered. Imagine if the former President of Harvard who lost his job for merely suggesting women are less qualified in math and science had called that phoney baloney idiot professor who claims she almost fainted during the speech “a CUNT”. God, would have paid ,oney for that. And on the other hand if she’d called him a “prick” or “dick” noone would have yawned.
On a serious note I haven’t read those feminest propaganda manuals (ala Newsweek, US News, Time) for years and am amazed to see people still read them.
And too, I’ve often wondered why everyone laughs when a guy gets his nuts kicked and withers around in pain. Seems to me it’s pretty weird. By the by, I looked up the word you called whats hiz name and there was no def for CUNT. Hmmmm …. …. …. …. (fingers drumming on table) well, guess I’ll have to go see the Monologues to see what it means. Yeah, right. “YOU TWAT” Steve G will do just as fine.
Actually, I believe ole Steve G. is probably alot craftier then the rest of us. Useing the ole “woman are better then men, honestly sweetheart, I’m liberated and I’ve transcended to a new level” line to get at the ole koochie eh? Works everytime. Feed em, fork em and ferget em?
I say two or three bottles of decent wine works just as well.